The Work Different, Live Different Podcast - Episode 4
Laura - Welcome to episode four.
Lacey - Hello everyone.
Laura - Hello. Well, I mean, as we've said over and over and over again with this podcast, with this season of the podcast, it's really about, you know, kind of giving ourselves a platform that feels like comfy and yeah, just that feels comfy for us to reintroduce ourselves to our audience, to our community. We always joke, and historically it's true that like we just are not great on social media. We don't love showing up, showing our faces, talking to everyone. It just doesn't feel authentic to us. But what does feel authentic is just having a conversation, um, and sharing it in podcast form. Um, and so that's what we're here to do today. And it's gonna be just a Laura Lacey buddy episode, which is gonna be so cute.
Lacey - That's right. It feels like, um, a really beautiful opportunity to like reintroduce ourselves. And it's funny, I was doing, you know, probably some email stuff the other day for us and I started to listen to one of our old podcast episodes just cuz you know, I was like, oh. Let's take a look. And it was the episode with Michaela, our first interview guest. Mm-hmm. And Mikayla's a good friend. Now, you know, like she's come a long way. And I remember I just listened to like, maybe the first 10 to 20 minutes. Like I, I didn't listen to the whole thing. Um, but she had started, I, we were asking her about her massive growth in her following that had happened over the last few months. And she had gone from like 5K to 18,000 and we were like, that's so crazy. And she was launching her first book and like, you know, four books later, a million sales. Plus sales million dollar business. Now that girl is like hundreds of thousands of followers.
Laura - It's wild.
Lacey - Um, and it was just like such a cool moment to be like, oh yeah, that's where we, we began.
Laura - Yeah.
Lacey - Um, and not only have we grown as a business and as people, but like all of our guests and all of the entrepreneurs in this community have just, you know, been evolving and growing and it's so cool to see.
Laura - It's so cool. It's so cool. Yeah. Looking back on all the people that we've talked to and to your point, just like where they, their, where they were or where they started when they were like, even, you know, Kelly, like when we had her on the fog, the podcast for the first time, she had like, just quit her job was just like, I don't know what's gonna happen. And like, again, another million dollar business later and just killing it. So like, Uh, yeah, very cool journey. Um, but it does really, like I have these moments, I'm sure you have these moments too, Lace of just, you know, we look back and look at where we started and think about, you know, that journey and where we are now. Like we are in a wildly different place. And I was just thinking before we started recording today, just kind of about like, you know, questions that I have around that for you. And I think the biggest one is just like, what has it been like as the person who started The Maker's Collective? You know, it was it before it was even a podcast, you know, you were, you were, had started this thing, um, this like community building vehicle. And so like what has it been like for you over the last five years to like watch it change and grow? Yeah.
Lacey - Wow. Big question, Laura. That's right. Laura with the big guns. Oh wow. It's been like, I mean, I'm very in the season of like, life is a paradox and two things can be true at one time. And so it, you know, it's been an absolute fucking dream come true. And it's been like so challenging and lots of things came up that you can't expect, and that's the way it should be. I think like that's what growing is. Like we can kind of plot the point on the horizon and go for that vision and that goal, but we will never understand the how and by the time we get to that plot point our whole dream can be entirely different. And that's great. It's like, anyway, so what's it been like? It's been totally wild. Um, like I remember the, the moment that the idea sparked for whatever this was going to become, I was like trying to sell art and I couldn't take pictures of my art. Um, cuz there was lighting stuff and there was texture stuff and I was so frustrated cuz I'm very much a like, do it yourself kind of gal. Um, so I asked my ex at the time who was a photographer, if he could, out of the goodness of his heart, help me take a few photos of my art so I could try and sell it and create an Etsy shop. And he said, I'll do it for free if you can write my biography from me, from my website that I'm launching. And I remember that exchange. I remember how it felt. I remember how helpful it was for both of us, and it just felt like very magical to be able to help one another in that way. And that was the idea where I was like, this needs to be a whole ass thing that we can access. And that's kind of what, like sparked the first idea for it. But since then, it's been a blog, a podcast, a meetup series. You know, we've done events, we've done workshops. Like we've done it all now, and it's, it's really transformed from like that community building initiative into a fully fledged business where we are thought leaders in the space of entrepreneurship. And it's so incredible to look at like how far it's come and how it's changed. And I feel like talking about how it's changed is a whole other podcast episode. But yeah, I think I'm proud. I'm proud. I'm also like tired, the pandemic, like all the pandemic stuff has created yeah, I feel like a lot of, um, like fatigue and burnout for not just us, but most business owners. So yeah, I think like I'm getting to a place where I'm also feeling like the momentum again, post pandemic vibes and just starting to feel hopeful again and inspired again, creative, you know?
Laura - Yes, yes.
Lacey - How about for you?
Laura - Well, first of all, just to like tag onto what you were saying there, like I didn't know that story about how like that's such a cute and like very you know, real time example of what you were saying, like exactly what it was that made the Makers collective in the beginning so magical and I think what continues to make it magical, like we, it's always our number one thing has always been to like, do things to help people. Like it does this. I think that's like a lens that we always look at everything through is like, does this thing that we wanna do help people? Um, and then to take it even a step further, you know, how do we ensure that we're keeping things you know, really accessible for people because we understand how fucking hard it is to
Lacey - That's right.
Laura - You know, start something, um, and to start something with nothing. And I think like we've just always kind of kept that, kept those ideas at the forefront of what we've been doing. And then also just really trying to, even though things have like wildly changed and we are no longer doing a lot of the things that we did to really like bring people together in like a real life setting. And not to say that we won't do those things again, I think we're just now starting to kind of get a bit more comfortable with being out in the world and like, you know, starting to do, like, dip our toes back into doing things in real life. But yeah, just like how do we continue to try to bring people together, even in the online space. And how do we do it in a way that kind of feels, that's not boring, that's not like just the same old, same old. And so I think, I think as long as we continue to try to keep all of those things that were, like the founding pillars of Makers Collective at the forefront of what we're doing we’ll be doing what feels right and good to us. But yeah, I agree. I think it's been exciting. It has been very cool to watch the growth. It has been exceptionally challenging.
Lacey - Yeah. Yes.
Laura - In so many ways. For so many reasons. And I think like it was just us at the beginning. It was just you and me and we were just kind of like doing things that felt you know, kind of authentic to us and things that were, I think, areas that we really understood. And so we were able to like really thoughtfully lead and like make choices together. And then we kind of got to this place where it was like, okay, well we want to see this grow, we want to see this evolve. And education did seem like kind of the, the right next step. Um, but then, you know, realizing that that's not necessarily where either of our strengths lie, and it's not that, you know, you are a great facilitator, you are like a great educator and like, it was just an area that we were like, huh, like we don't have a ton of experience here. So like, how do we do this in an, in like an authentic way? And you know, so then bring Jeff in. Such a great decision on our part. But like also difficult because like, it's a different, it's a, a whole other human who like, looks and thinks about things, you know, I, I think we are often all on the same page and, you know, it's just a whole other perspective that like, has to be like, looked at and brought in. And it's challenging to do anything with more than just your own, like one person. So like, for you, you've watched it go from like just you to like, you know, something that you were kind of just doing on your own when it made sense for you to do it to like, then bringing me in and like, I think that was great, but probably there were also challenges for you in, in having me. I, again, I think like you and I, I often joke that like we share a brain in a lot of ways and like generally speaking, when like one of us is feeling a way about something, the other one is also feeling the same way. Um, and so like I think we've been able to really navigate any times where there's been challenges um, especially when it, when it was just the two of us in just a, a really great way because we are, because we just, we understand each other and are kind of like connected in that like, cosmic way that allows you to be like, oh, something's not right, and what do you think about this? And then, you know, the other person is usually like, yeah, totally agree.mWe gotta do something differently. Or we gotta, like…
Lacey - It's literally, it's like a look, I can just like, we can give each other a look and we're like, mm-hmm.
Laura - Yeah. But then, you know, you bring in a third person and like, this is just the hard part of growth. Um, like anybody who's growing a business who's like hiring people or like finding partnerships or like any of that understands that like, Anytime you bring another entity into the picture, it is like, it's not easy. Um, and like there's a lot of great things that can come from it and it's, it can also be challenging. And then you add in the dynamics like the interpersonal dynamics of like three friends who like love each other, but then also two people in that dynamic are like in a relationship and are now married. And then, you know, and that is a whole world of like just interesting dynamics that you have to try to work through and like it hasn't always looked like rosy and happy. And I think like for me, the most important thing, when we first decided that we were gonna do this as like a threesome, that like the most important thing for me was like the friend, like the relationships come first. Like if there ever comes a point in this where we are not having fun, where we're feeling a lot of like tension with each other or like where it just feels like it's not good anymore than I'm out. I don't wanna do it anymore. Because the most important thing to me is like keeping our dynamics as like friends who love each other intact because I have watched it go the other way and it is horrific and it is like not worth it. And it is just like not it. Um, and I think, I think like I love what we're doing and I don't love it enough to like let it injure anything within our, our relationships and our dynamic. So, yeah, I think like, not to harp on that too much, but I think like that's just the real of what it is to like grow a business with people in your world, to have partners to like, you know, try to grow a business.
Lacey - Absolutely. It's like you're never gonna grow as much as when you decide to go into business and also to do it with, your friends who you love. It invites you to do such in like personal work too, I think.
Laura - Yeah. Yes, definitely agree.
Lacey - Yeah. It's been such a wild journey and I think like the, and like recently reflecting on all that, it's like every time we made a big shift or change or addition to the team, it just, it, it continues to become something new. You know? It's just like layers of evolution. It just, like, it was this, now it's this, now it's this, now it's this. Um, so that's, and it's constant. Yeah. And it's constant. Yeah. It's totally, I think like I, I had to go through a lot of like ego death, because in the beginning I had a, I had like a lot of, yeah, like straight up. I had like a lot of like ego in the beginning. I think it's because I was just like hustling, like classic hashtag hustling to, to make a name for myself and to build the brand and build the business and be successful and, all that stuff. But then, you know, you go into something with other people and you're, it becomes yours. And I really like over time had to like, almost let go of the idea of like, it being so attached. To meet my identity rather. And that wasn't like, that didn't have anything to do with like the business and how it, because really what happened is it's like you bring this baby up, you're so attached to it, and then it becomes its own thing, its own entity. And it's growing and changing at its own pace and it's in the world and people are, that's what branding is. People tell you what it is, like you create it and then you let the people decide. And through that process, I had to like separate myself, my own, like, cuz we, we tend to identify ourselves with the things that we do and create.
And it's not always healthy. Like it can become an unhealthy balance of like, where do you get your worth from? Where do you get your identity from? So yeah, I think in my own personal work it was, and I felt it, it felt like, um, slow and steady at first. And there were some like rocky bumps along the way. And then eventually I just was like, no, I gotta let go and let it be its own thing. And I think there's been a lot more peace ever since then.
Laura - Yes. Yeah. I love this conversation cuz I think like, oh it's so real for people when they build something and like we try to, it's, it's one of the things that we really try to share with people upfront through Side Hustle 101 is like, you might come up with an idea that you think is the best fucking idea in the world and you are like, have spent so much time thinking about it and so much time, like, so much energy, like trying to make it happen and like it might not be the right idea. It like just might not be the right, the right thing and like you really have to drop your ego. I love that the way you phrased that, like ego death, like just having to drop all of that and like hands off and you let the people, like talk to people who you think might be your customers who you think might be your people. And like let them tell you what, what it is. It's hard and I think like my version of that because like I, as a rule for myself, I try really hard to not become attached to things. And it's not to say that like I haven't felt a lot of it, we have had a lot of disappointments in the last few years. And it's okay to be disappointed but like I am really working on not, it's hard when you are like looking out at everybody else. And it's that whole like comparing yourself thing and seeing people launch things, seeing people and like I'm talking about people like in the immediate, your immediate kind of community and vicinity, but also like people, like celebrities and like all of you know, that whole world, like watching people do things and perceiving that, like what's happening is that it's just clicking. And that it's just working. And to then you kind of build, you can build things up in your mind about your own business and like where you are with your, with your own, what you're doing and think like, yes, I've come up, we've come up with a thing and it's gonna go and it's gonna be, it's gonna fucking fly and this is gonna be the thing that like shoots us into the, the stratosphere, it's gonna be fucking great. Like we still have not had that particular experience and I don't know if we ever will. It might not ever be one of those things where like something just takes off and suddenly we're like at the moon. So that has been my like ego work is just like really trying to stop putting expectations on things that we are launching or things that we're building or things that we're doing, and just like understand that it's gonna be what it's gonna be and that as long as we are paying attention and like listening to our audience and, you know, being, uh, flexible and being nimble. It, it's gonna work itself out at some point. So that's been my ego work, but I think like, um, yeah, I just have like really, I've really tried not to have too much ego around what Maker's Collective is gonna look like. But I think a challenge that I come across, I bump up against every once in a while and it's really just like an internal thing, it's not anything that I'm seeing or like seeing any evidence of, but just the thinking around like, what do other people think of the fact that Maker's Collective started out as like you and me and like we were at the helm of this and we were running this and like we were making all the decisions and it was us to it now being very different. And there being this other person who is like, brilliant and smart and awesome, and great and talented, and I think like, has allowed us now to actually take on the roles that we're supposed to be in and that like, feel right. But I just have moments of wondering if people are like, huh, why? What happened? What happened there? Like where, where did Lacey and Laura go? Like, are they still there? Is this Jeff's business now? What's the, you know, and I don't know if, I don't know that that is like a real thing. I just, it's, it's a thing that I like every once in a while it just like pops up for me and I'm like, huh. But then I'm also like, that's true. But those things, I was making myself do things when it was just you and I that like, I didn't really wanna be doing, I like figured out how to make to, to do those things. And specifically I'm talking about like the events and like being, like speaking and like all of those things that now I'm like, I don't wanna do any of that. Um, and I, I shouldn't be is the reality, like you and Jeff are just better at doing those things and they come naturally to you and like, It's what you want to be doing. And so the message is going to come through more clearly and like it's going to hit stronger if like the people who are, whose skill sets are that are doing those things. Um, but yeah, I just sometimes have like insecurity I guess around like, huh, I wonder if anybody is like, what's going on? Where's, why has it changed so much?
Lacey - Right. Ooh, I feel you. I feel you on that for sure. And I think like, it is wild because in the beginning when we were really building up the brands and, and all that stuff, and you know, we were like, the faces of, we were the faces of this thing. And I think through, it's interesting because although it feels that way, it also is an indication of growth because you know, in the beginning you're like, it was such a, such an agile, like tiny team, so you have to do everything and oh my God, we were pushing ourselves to do stuff way outside of a) the comfort zone, which is like, can be a good thing. But also just like out of your, our zone of genius, like those things that we're like innately, uniquely here to do. And, and you know, I think when I'm in a role that I'm not supposed to be in for too long, I start to like push against it cuz it's, you know, I'm driven by like joy and challenge and inspiration. So, if it's not bringing me all those things consistently, then you know, my air's ass is like, fuck this.
Laura - Totally right. I think it was. Yes, absolutely. And I think like you and I have both had to go through, some big changes in terms of that. Like I think for me it was like the, yeah, doing the events, even the meetups, like those were really actually quite challenging for me and like quite taxing. And like really activated so much of my anxiety, um, and I think I'm a likable, like, affable person, so like, it's fine. And like I'm able to navigate those situations and like make it fine. Um, and it's not like it was awkward or people were like, Jesus Christ, that's what the fuck's wrong with this girl.
But I just, it, I was noticing that it was really, it was taking a toll. And so I find that that is like much less of a thing now, you know, because generally speaking, I'm doing things that aren't a big stretch for me, that aren't, and and again, like you said, stretching yourself, putting yourself out of your comfort zone, good things, happy to have done those things. Happy to have had those experiences. And I think like I feel like I've really tried and I've really like done those things and I just really know that that's like not long term what I want and, and I think it just works really well for the dynamic that we have because it just, yeah, I'm not like, oh, I need to be out in the world. I need to be the one that's talking to people. I need to be the one that's like trying to build things. Like I don't need to be doing any of those things. Like y'all got it. And I am like very happy to be in the background and to be the one who's like, you know you're gonna, you're still gonna, people are still gonna hear from me. I'm still the one who is, if, if you're getting an email from us, it's generally speaking gonna be for me, like there's, I'm, I'm still connected, but just connected in ways that I think make sense for who I am as a person.
Lacey - Mm-hmm. It's so important, I think, to like, just, I think there, like you are such a self-aware person, so you, the whole, while you knew how it made you feel and you knew the value of it on both sides. So you fucking did the damn thing. And I just like, I remember before every speaking thing and every event, you'd be like, holy fuck. You know, like, but that's like a very internalized experience that not everybody can understand or see from the outside, like looking in. And when you're stretching yourself to do that kind of work and like the social part of it, that can drain your battery faster than anything else.
And it can lead to burnout if you continue on that cycle and doing it over and over and over. So I think it's been like a really smart pivot to like shift those things for ourselves. Um, because like, you know, I understand that from like, I guess the other side of the coin, it was like, I think the pandemic actually really brought it on as well.
Cause we were out in the world and that's where I love to be. Like, like it, like I'm a, I'm such a weird, do they call it an ambivert or something? It's like someone who's extrovert. I'm like 60% extroverted, 40% introverted. Yeah. On the, on the scale. So I get a lot out of that, but I need to like, I need a lot of recovery in like alone time too. Um, and then when the pandemic came, it was like we had to pivot our whole business. Everything went online and we were lucky to be able to do that. And what I was finding is I was trying to reach through screens every single day, trying to connect with people in the same way. And people were very stressed, anxious, like feeling it like we all were. And I think it just kinda doing that and then having to show up on social media, it started to become so draining and monotonous because it started to feel performative. Um, because I felt like I was trying to blow myself up bigger, larger than life. And like, almost like I was putting on a show, which like if you know me, you know, like I do have a lot of that energy, but not all the time. It's like very intuitive with like where I'm at in my cycle and where I'm at in my life and my seasons. And, um, if I'm like trying to force it when it's not there, um, I'm just like, I don't feel like I'm being real. And I think like back to building our business on these pillars, we're we really value transparency, vulnerability, honesty, like all of these things. And, you know, social media is this world, this highlight real world. So I think like when we took away the in-person aspects of like our life, lifestyle business and then put it all online, it just really started to, um, it was, it was hard for me because it was something that I loved previously and then I lost the love for it and then I was forcing myself to do it. Cuz as a business owner you kind of have to show up. And it just like, it really, um, created like almost this toxic relationship that I'm still trying to heal and work through. Um, so yeah, it, it feels nice to be able to like record this where we can again, like get real, have the deep and meaningful conversations. I think that's where we really thrive, um, in relating to our community and just speaking the truth and the stories of like what we're all likely experiencing.
Laura - Totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really hard. It can be really hard, and I feel like you have gone through this several times, to feel differently about a thing that once was a big part of like your identity or a big part of like how people knew you. Um, and to like really like shed to have this space and the like, freedom and the ability to like shed that layer. And to have something else kind of bubble up as like the thing that you want to be known for or the thing that like you care more about. And to like have people stay caught up with that and to not still like, try to see you as like that past version of who you were. Um, you know, and like, I think that really like dovetails nicely into you becoming a mindset coach. Like that is a huge change from what you were doing. And as you said, like kind of where you started even, you started as, you know, an artist and then you were like, and now I'm well, and as you were being an artist, you were also like a marketing professional and like, doing marketing and writing for people and for companies, but like you've really like shifted so much in the last five years from like that to now who you are. And I'm sure that there were lots of challenges in there in terms of just like, yeah, how do you like do that while being kind of like known, like you are known, especially in this region and like not feel like you're constantly having to explain yourself or, you know, still like identify as that other thing because like that's where people are comfortable with you like being like that's, it's challenging.
Lacey - Yeah. It's so challenging. Like speaking of ego death and I just like, I think the, the older we get, the more, the more unlearning that we do, uh, the more ourselves we become. And I think it's just been a series of like, like you said, like shedding these layers of like chapters of who I've been and all those chapters are still inside of me. Like all of that is still who I am, but it's not the only thing that I am, if that makes sense. Um, so like I am, I'm still an artist. Am I actively like painting every day and selling my art? No, but I'm still an artist. Um, marketing in the beginning of my business looked so different. I was like doing a lot of spec work, a lot of freelancing work, and then I moved into like strategy and consulting and, and, and now coaching work. And that really kind of like grew and evolved and changed and then in our world of like helping entrepreneurs. So it was like the combination of my marketing work, building our business, um, becoming thought leaders and helping business owners to grow their businesses to sell themselves, all these things. Um, I just started to recognize a lot of mindset patterns um, inside like that one-on-one consulting and coaching. I was like, oh, wow. I've talked to now probably hundreds, maybe even thousands of people, and I am noting a few similarities. And a lot of them have nothing to do with their business. A lot of them actually have things to do with their relationship with themselves, their sense of self-esteem, the way that they doubt themselves, the inner critic, like imposter syndrome, all of these things that are like universally experienced, but like, how do we fucking work through them? And for me, I didn't feel equipped to ethically guide people through that. Like, how do I walk? And for me, like, as like a, you know, self-help personal growth junkie, I was always like listening to all the podcasts in the books and the, you know, like talking to coaches and stuff like that. And they helped me get through my stuff and it's like never ending. This shit does not ever go away. But yeah, it just like kind of led me down the path to wanting to get more training there and then, you know, becoming like this mindset and business coach is like such an interesting mix of things because again, it's like another new identity. And if you came into my world and into our world when I was like, you know, scrappy side hustler, artist meets marketing freelancer, then that might be how you know me. But as with all of us, we continue to grow and change and yeah, I think it is tricky, especially because I've fallen off of the, the habit of sharing a lot online. And so because I'm not sharing as much as I once did, um, all that's really out there is a lot of the old content and a lot of the old content is connected directly to like old stuff I was doing.
And so I mean, What it looks like now is like, I am all of these things and none of these things. It's so not to be all philosophy, not to get all like, you know, but it's true. It's like, yeah, my portfolio of work is just like, okay, I still do marketing, consulting and like strategy business consulting. Cool. Those things are the things that, you know, pay my bills and I'm good at it and it's still, you know, like it's fulfilling it when you pick the jobs that align with your values and then we're running our company, we're growing that. It's like a slow and steady burn. And it's like we've done a lot in the years that we've been doing it and it continues to grow. And then, you know, segueing into this new realm of like exploring, coaching, yes, in the realm of entrepreneurship, but also in the realm of like lifestyle design and your mindset and that like those holistic things around you that impact your business, your relationships, your life. Um, that's the stuff that's really, I think I just continue to chase what lights me up and that's what where it leads me. And um, I got like this astrology reading once. And she was like, you're gonna be many things like continue to go through your ego deaths and you will, you will go through many identities in this life and that's your strength. Like, you're a river, you're not stale water. You're like, you're meant to be so many things. She's like, I wouldn't be surprised if you become like a farmer at some point in your life. I was like, well, cheers to that. So yeah. And I think we just, were existing in a world where we wanna put, like a lot of people still wanna put people in boxes. We still wanna like label you as one thing on a binary scale and that's just not gonna work. Um, we are, we get to be whatever we wanna be and, uh, it's something I'm, I'm still like giving myself permission to do and it, it is hard to share it sometimes because, you're met with, you know, that initial like, oh, but I thought you were doing this. What, how'd you get what, who, what do you do? Like I'm still met with that and that's, I think that's my destiny. Cause I'll always be changing.
Laura - Yeah, totally. I think if you are, you know, a person who cares about their own growth and who cares about doing the work to like really be attuned to like who you are and who you're becoming then that is like, what is going to happen? Like, right. I think it's, it's so healthy to change and to grow and it's also hard and it's like hard to, and I think even from like a personal, uh, like standpoint, I have come across this just like even within my own family of like, I'm a very different person now than I was when I was, you know, in my twenties. I was a kind of a piece of shit when I was in my twenties. I mean, I wasn't, but I was like, I just did a lot of stupid things and like, I just really, I had a lot of space cuz I was on my own to like, just make a bunch of mistakes and like do a bunch of dumb things. Um, and I'm like very, I'm very privileged that I was able to like, do those things and not, you know, have anything like really terrible happen to me. Um, but I, my family like really like, kind of knows me as that. Like that was so much of who I was. And, and then just being like, oh, Laura doing a dumb thing again. And so I think it's like it's taken a while for like the person that I am now to catch up with, to catch up with me and to catch up with them. And then. I think it's interesting, like as you, when you go into new spaces, so I left Toronto, I came here, I, you know, met new people. I'm in a new group and like you guys only know me as the person I am now, or like more so of the person that I am now. And so, like, then it's this interesting thing of like, when I'm with people who like knew me back then the, the experiences that we've had together, the, like the, the narrative that we have is like still, it's, it's, it's not totally back there, but like, there's still some of that that comes into how we relate to one another and like, that, that's doesn't exist in this like, new group. And it's, so then that's just an interesting thing to experience. Um, but yeah, I think like even if you're not, you know, sort of changing and growing in terms of like what you do with your life, you still, if you're, if you're still, you know, I'm sure that you've had experiences with people in your world who like again, knew you where you were and who have taken time to kind of catch up with like who you are now.
Lacey - Oh my gosh, yes. I was also a shithead. Llike, you know, I, I, I really take comfort in, um, well, first of all, that's so fucking relatable. Like, who here hasn't felt that way? Like literally my family knows me as like spicy teenage Lacey. Like, and it's just like been frozen in time for them. Um, but it's true. And, and I don't know, I was just reading this quote about how like, you know, we have to like forgive ourselves too, because we were doing the best that we could with the information we had at the time. And so that was our best, you know, usually, um, with like, you know, that, that preexisting capability and tools and resources that we had, and, and as we grow, we get to do better. Um, but man, I've fucked up a lot in this life and I, I continue to, and like I know that there are people who probably know me in a dif like I'm the villain in some people's stories.
Laura - I was just thinking about that. Yeah, I, I was just thinking about that. I'm definitely the villain in some people's stories. A hundred hundred percent.
Lacey - You know, I. You know, I'm sending lots of love to you and it's okay that we're not in each other's lives anymore. And it's honestly, isn't it just the same, it's the same with business. It's the same with, um, personal interpersonal relationships. Love, like our life. It continues to evolve and change and like our identities continue to unveil new layers or remove old layers, and, and then we get to start over. And it can be hard when you're existing in a space where people knew who you were and relate to you in that way. It's, it's super tricky, especially like as a business and in the realm of like branding and storytelling. Gosh, it's, it's so, I'm like, I'm arriving in a season where I'm just like, I'm tired. I don't want to jump on TikTok and educate anymore. I don't like, I wanna, I wanna like tell you about the weird cat forts that I'm building.
Laura - Like, yeah. I mean, I'm not even using social media personally anymore. I haven't really posted anything on Instagram in months. Um, so I like, I'm, I just, I think where I am at with that, I do, I still, I manage our social media for our business and like do the best I can there, but I, I only do that because again, it's like, it's a necessary evil. It is, like, we want people to come to our page, new people that are coming into our, you know, we're, we're really big on partnerships. We're really big on partnering with organizations and, and people who have similar audiences. And so, you know, we're, we are growing in that sense and getting lots of new eyeballs on what we're doing. And so I, you know, I want people when they go to our Instagram page to be like, oh, they're still, like, they're, they're real. Like they're active, they're doing things. I can, like, I'm learning something. I'm like entertained by something. I, there's something here for me and so let's follow them. And like, that's how, how it works right now. Um, but I, I think personally where I've gotten to with social media is that it feels like you either have to show up all the time and just, and you're sharing every single thing you do. And like, kudos to the people who are able to do that and keep their fucking sanity. But like, I am not that bitch. Like, I am not that person. And so that just feels terrible to me. Um, or you, or like as you said, it's a highlight reel and then you're only seeing the, like, shiny, happy uh, part of people's lives and like that's not real. And that is like what makes people feel bad about themselves and like feel like they're not keeping up and feel like they're less than. So none of that feels authentic to me. And then I also find it weird when I like really think about what social media is. It's like you're. It's just a person talking into a phone. It's so weird. It's a person talking into a phone. It's fucking weird. Like it's, I know the whole thing is weird and it just, it, it really, it just doesn't work for me.
Lacey - Yeah. And you know, it's, it's truly a sign of the times. I mean, we're, we're now living in this, like, this world where, you know, content is everywhere. It's all consuming. And in this like world of virality and chasing the virality of things, it can be such like, you know, a thing where we're setting ourselves up for feeling failure if we're not um, meeting those metrics and like those benchmarks. But the thing is, like, I just, like, I always wanna remind everyone, you, you can be a successful person, a fulfilled person, you can be a successful business owner without having a huge following or without posting online all the time. There are different methods or different ways to access the people that you're here to help. And that's something we try to teach obviously inside our material, but, It's like such an important reminder to myself as well all the time because I think I started this journey like going for that more like influencer type of a, an approach. Um, because that's what I was finding was drawing people to me and wanting to buy from me and work with me is like sharing who I am and what I teach on and, and I'm just kind of arriving into a place of being like, well, I'm tired. Like there's a lot of content here. Like you can consume that. Or reach out to me or get on my email list and I work with, you know, partners and stuff. And that's like, that's, that's where I'm at in these these times. I don't wanna be an influencer.
Laura - No. And like, so you and I have also talked about the fact that like, we are not also inherently content creators. Like I think that whole like you know, job of content creating has become such a big thing. Um, and it just, that is not who we are. I don't want to be a content creator. I can create content, but I don't want to be a content creator. And that's like really where social media has like gone. And so if you don't really feel like you fit into that, then it can feel like, why am I doing this?
Lacey - Like, can I do this? And you know, we get a lot of these questions inside our sessions of people feeling like, well, I don't, do I have what it takes? And it's like, well, yes, and it gets to look different. Like your strategy gets to look different. Um, and there are different ways to go about it, but it, it, it is hard cuz like, you have to discern what approach is right for you, what your goals are with it, and like what feels best for you. And that also just like echoing everything we've been saying, that gets to change, right? If you started here and you were doing these things and it was working, cool, cool, cool, cool. Now you're changing, you wanna do different things, that's okay too. Like, allow your, give yourself permission to like change the way in which you interact with the interwebs and your community? Or you, you will, you'll get burnt out. You will, like, your health will take it a hit, which I've definitely experienced that.
Laira - Yeah, a hundred percent. Maybe we shift gears a little bit from the, the biz of it all into the personal of it all because things have really changed and like shifted quite a bit for both of us in the past couple of years and like even recently. So like, you know mm-hmm. Let's dive into that and like, oh my gosh, share who and like where we are. Cause I feel like when we ended the podcast, so that was like winter of 2021, Jeff and I had just gotten married that fall. And you were at that point, were you still living? Like uptown.
Lacey - I think I was, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, I was living that like sort of bachelor life.
Laura - Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think like a lot has, what do you think is like the biggest shift? Because like obviously we've talked about how you now have found love and like Kris is the best and um, and we love him. And like what for you is like the biggest change that you've kind of gone through personally in the last like couple of years or like even since meeting Kris?
Lacey - Oh my gosh, yeah. I think like it's crazy how much can change for you in such a short period, but honestly I think like at a high level it's um, it's some of this interpersonal mindset, identity stuff we've been talking about, like a lot of that has kind of shifted, reevaluating, like what's really important to me. I think all of us maybe experienced that through the wake of like the pandemic and you know, sort of being forced to look at what's important again. So through that phase, I think I just really identified that like I don't, like work is not everything. And that could change in an instant and it's really meaningful to me and it's not the only thing that's important to me, like my relationships, my community, my friendships and love that's like so meaningful and enriches our life. And anyway, so a lot of that, which I think we've touched on a little bit, but then also I think lifestyle. Lifestyle, probably is likely the biggest shift that's happened. Um, for so many years since we built this business I was like very single as a Pringle and enjoying and in like enjoying that. And very, like, you know, in my independent woman building shit, making life happen, you know, in that era, which is like, you know, obviously still a thing. But, um, I think that like naturally your lifestyle looks different. Who you're hanging out with, where you're going now, how you're spending your time, your money, your resources um, that has changed a lot because, um, well first of all, we weren't allowed to do a lot of that stuff for a very long time. So I moved into a place with, you know, one of my really good friends, Bri, who is a Medium, who like talks to the dead for a living. So, two entrepreneurial women, single, really discovering what's important to them. Bri like came out, she found, you know, this new layer of herself dating women, exploring sexuality, identity, we had lots of good chats about that, which made me also like reflect on my own shit. And then her and I both at the same time, met people that we just like fell truly madly, deeply for, despite, uh, maintaining that we don't need no man or woman or non-binary, they/them to have a happy life. Um, but then, you know, life happens and it happens. So for me, that looked like, okay, so we are living together, we're nurturing our young romances. It's so exciting. And then we fall like super deep and then we decide, oh, I think we wanna like build a life with these people. So we start to go our separate ways and move in with our partners. Wild, wild shift right there. And my partner has children, so I am, I'm stepping into an entirely new life, lifestyle, I have new roommates half of the time that are 11 and 13. Uh, teenage girls. And they are coming from a long history and lived experience with their mom and dad, and then a split up through that pandemic and all of that other stuff. So I'm coming into, like, they've grown, they've healed a lot, but they're still trying to get a grasp on what this all means. So all of us are in this new living situation, getting to know each other, caring for each other, but also going through our own shit. And it's like such an interesting space to be because previous to this, I was fairly convinced that I might not have kids unless I found like that right sort of person, partner alignment, all of that. Just essentially feeling like I wasn't in a rush to do anything like that. I felt indifferent about when people would ask me, do you wanna have kids? I'd say, I don't know. Like I'm not one of those people who always knew that they wanted to do all of that stuff. Um, very like career, creator driven, I would say. And, um, so anyway, I'm like living that life and then I, you know, get together with Kris, I get to interact with him, fall in love with him. We're building this life and his children are part of it. Like this is a family life and they're with us 50% of the time. And so it's like, okay, I am part of a family unit and although they're not my children, I. We have children. You know what I'm saying? So the time when they're not here, I'm still very much in tune with like our friends and our lifestyle and going out, having drinks, like creating things, doing all the shit that like fills our buckets. And then when the kids are here, we're very much like taking them to hockey and horseback riding and hearing about bullies at school and crushes and dealing with hormones and fights and all the things you can imagine. And so I would say just like at a high level, holy, and it's still so fresh. Like this is not cemented in just yet. We're still integrating and learning as we go. And it has been like, the huge, like biggest personal growth, like I feel like I'm going through another wave of personal growth here inside not only my relationship, but like stepping in as like a figure that is a supporter and advocate for young people. Um, and holy shit, it, it like brings up so much. It also is, I find, bringing up, again, another bout of like, what is important to me and us. It's like even like running our evening sessions, you know how we run our sessions usually in the evening for side hustle. It's like always happening when the girls are eating with their dad and I'm like starting to feel like, fuck, like now I don't wanna be like that guy that's working through dinner. And it's like, presence is so important. So it's like, again, it it, it's like you said, when it was just me, I was able to do whatever the fuck I wanted. And now I'm just, I'm finding myself. Naturally wanting to consider, um, living intentionally inside this new realm. In this new world. And like I'll keep you all posted cuz I'm still figuring it out. And also if there are any like stepparents that are listening, would you please connect with me because I would love to talk to someone about this.
Laura - Totally. Yeah. I mean yes cuz it is like brand, brand, brand, brand new. Like, when we were going away to Portugal at the end of January, you were literally like, just, just starting the process of moving in with Kris. So like, it's been a hot minute. Oh, it hasn't been long folks, but, uh, And that is like the most monumental shift. Like, I don't know if there's a bigger shift other than like birthing your own child, like, going from kind of doing things on your own, living on your own, you know, essentially, um, to having kids around all the time. Like, that's huge.
Lacey - Oh my God. It's massive. And it's, it's still kind of like revealing itself as we go. And yeah, it, it's just, I'd say like of, of anything, this has been probably the biggest, um, I'd say like lifestyle shift. I still feel like I, I am rooted in who I am and the things that are, have always been important to me, are so important to me. And this is a new chapter for sure. So I'll definitely keep everyone posted. Um, but yeah, I think like it's helpful to, to just share these stories cuz we're all going through it.
Laura - I think like as a person, as your friend, um, like I'll just share kind of like from my place outside of this, like looking in on and like watching all of this unfold and happen. You know, I think a lot of this is because you have a stepparent yourself. So you understand sort of intimately what that role can look like. And I think like, have seen it be done well. From everything that you've shared with me. And so you have been so intentional from the beginning, from like the, from go basically from like as soon as you realized that this human has has offspring. Like, oh, like this needs to be, we need to, we need to do this intentionally. We need to, you, you've put a lot of care behind how you have interacted with them, how you have moved within that dynamic. Um, and so it's just been really cool to see that. And I think like there just is, and this is not saying like that you were immature before, but just there is like a maturity, like another level of maturity that happens, um, or that comes when you are, you know, in the presence of kids and like then for them to, they're not yours, but you care for them. You are like a big part of their world now. You're a figure that they're able to look to and look up to. And so there just is like a, yeah, there's just like another level or like layer of maturity that like comes with that responsibility. And I feel like you are, you're, you're doing such a great job.
Lacey - Thanks, buddy. Oh my gosh. I'm just gonna re replay this over and over when I'm having like a dark night of the soul experience.
Laura - And they're like, I hate you!
Lacey - That's right. Oh my God. What about you, like, last couple years, what's been the biggest shift for you? Because I know we've both have kind of been going through lots of that.
Laura - Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, yeah. I mean, on the topic of kids, I think the biggest thing that we, the biggest decision that Jeff and I have made, Um, in the last couple of years is the decision to not have kids. Um, that was a thing that kind of like you, it was like we were both kind of like, well, you know, maybe, um, and at one point it was kind of like, well, maybe we'll just like see what happens. Like, you know, we'll just, we'll, like not use birth control anymore and like, just if it happens, cool, and if it doesn't happen, also cool. Um, and then I just remember we were actually at our friend's, Greg and Jordanna’s, and we were babysitting and we were just like laying on the couch watching tv. And I just, like, this thought came to my mind where I was like, hmm. And maybe I'd been thinking about it leading up to that moment. I'm not sure, but like, something about that moment felt like the right time to be like, so what if we didn't have kids? And it was just like, I don't know. And it was a weird time to bring it up maybe. But like then Jeff was like, I mean, yeah. Like I don't hate that idea at all. And we just like, was like, well we've been talking like since we started dating about wanting to, and this is something that is like very true and like I came up against several times, um, throughout the, like, years of us before we made this decision, uh, being together, was that like the life that I envision for myself and even like the words that I'm using to like, describe the life that I wanna live didn't actually align with the idea of having kids. And it's not to say that like we couldn't have a great life having kids. I think that that's, I think lots of people have great lives having kids and like clearly because like why would people do it otherwise? Um, but when we, we did this exercise one time where it was like, what do you envision? Like if you like look into the future in like the next five years, like what does a morning look like? Like what do you envision a morning looking like? And so I remember Jeff and I having this conversation and me being like, I think we had just maybe talked about having kids. And then, um, Jeff was like, and then I, so then my response was, well, I just see like a really slow, like, quiet, peaceful morning where like we're, you know, we get up, we are like, we have some coffee. We're just like, just everything feels like spacious and like gentle and like all of this stuff. And Jeff is like, so I just want to point out that like, that isn't necessarily aligned with having kids. Like, it's not to say that that can't be true, but like that is not how, those are not the things that like immediately come to mind when you like, think about having kids. So I'm not, I don't know. And so like, then that just was kind of like left. Um, but it would come up for me every once in a while of just like, huh, like we do, like we've talked about from the beginning of our relationship, like wanting to travel a lot, like wanting to go away for like longer periods of time. Wanting, wanting to like, be able to support the people in our lives in like really meaningful ways. And again, it's like none of these things necessarily have to be disrupted by having kids or like, can't be true when you have kids, but it's harder. You know? Like it's, it's harder to travel when you have kids.
It just is. It would be hard depending on the age that your kids are to like go away for five weeks in the winter. It's. Hard to be available to like, do things for people or with people, you know, like even this, this winter, um, our good friend Judy, she was having a baby and like she, there were some like, serious health things that happened kind of like right after. And she, and like she needed help one night and she like got in touch with us at like 9:00 PM and if we had kids like, it's harder to like drop what you're doing and like go and be there and be available. Um, you know, it's, it's just harder. I think even for, you know, my brother and my sister-in-law, they have two kids, you know, they are able to, we're we're able to step in as babysitters, we, you know, they went away to Mexico earlier in the winter. Um, and we were able to go and stay overnight and like babysit and be there with them and like get them to school and like do the whole thing. I like, that's harder to do when you've got kids. Like it just, all of those things that like feel really meaningful to us are harder to do if we've got our own littles. And so it just as we were having this discussion of like, what would life look like if we didn't have kids? And like the picture looked pretty fucking great. Um, and it felt really good and it felt like freeing. Um, cuz I was definitely having these, like, I don't, like how do we do these things that feel really important to us? Um, and like, have been things we've wanted to do for so long. How do we do these things? And still like, cuz like once you have kids, like that's, that, that that's the thing, you know, like they're, they demand so much, they require so much and they're like worth doing so much for them. And giving up so much for them. And it like, it's such an important job and I think what's felt true to me is that, I mean, I think it's kind of like any job. If you don't really love it, then like, why would you do it?
Lacey - Right. If it's not a hell yes. Cuz that's the thing. Like if it was still a hell yes, this is something that I really wanna do that we really wanna do then, then you figure out the rest. But if it's hundred percent still sort of like a, ah, then I think like these are the right conversations to be having and this is what this next generation is doing is yeah, trying to be a little bit more intentional with these choices. And you know, looking at what you want from your life, how do you wanna design it? And so I think that's really, really fucking cool. And also, as your friend watching you guys go through this, it really has, like you guys have this sense of like calm and peace about you and it's like you're super aligned with what you want and you're starting to actualize some of those like dreams. That you've been talking about and it's very cool, like, it's so cool to watch happen.
Laura - Yay. Thank you. Yeah, I think like, I just continue to feel like the, the things that are happening in our life and like the messages that we're receiving are all just continuing to align with this decision that we've made. And so that feels great and like, I, I don't know. I am, I'm really like a lot, I think a lot of people when they make the decision, well, and also maybe I'm wrong about this, maybe lots of people don't feel this way, but like, I feel like there's like that grief that happens for people when they make the decision to not have kids. And I don't know, like I really have not, I haven't felt that way. I've really just felt strongly that this is the right decision for me and that um, and us and I think I would actually feel more grief if we went through, like, if we had gone, continued to go down the path of having kids, I think I would grieve and like mourn the life that could have been. And instead I'm just out here living that life. So Yeah, you are. That feels great.
Lacey - I think and like those things are super powerful indications that like you've made the right decision. Yeah. You know, it's like that sense of relief and like not experiencing like, the grief of what could have been. And I think that's all we can all do, right? Like, just try to make the best decisions that make sense for us and, and you know, keep going. Keep going. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's so beautiful. Cheers to that. I mean, yes. Cheers to that. Yes. Cheers. To allowing yourself to change Yes. And grow and changes fucking mind. And yes, living the way that makes sense for you and not for everyone else. Yes. Because there's like so much pressure as well. External pressure um, that says we should be living that type of life or a certain way, and we can always, like, you can always feel it when it doesn't like feel, right? Yes. So yes, it's like, yeah, keep following those nudges, for sure.
A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
Laura - Well, this has been such a great. Chat and Oh my God. Feel like at the end of of this, if you don't feel like you're caught up on who we are now as humans, then I don't know, ask your questions if there are things you wanna know. That's right. Send us, send us an email or a DM and, uh, and you know, yeah, we can, we can answer those questions. Um, but I feel like this is a, a good place to, to wrap this up.
Lacey - Yeah. This is so good. And yeah, send us your questions. Let us know what you want us to dive deeper into. Cuz you know, why not? Let's do it.
Laura - Totally, totally amazing. All right, well you're the best.
Lacey - You're the best. What a good catch. My goodness. Yeah. So good.
Laura - Okay gang, well, we'll talk later.
Lacey - Yeah. Till next time. Bye.
Laura - Bye.